Cuba? Not So Gooding.

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I’m having a debate with an “arch” conservative about American Interventionism in a different political blog.  Here’s my side of it:

We haven’t been able to “free” the Cuban people for over a half-century! Cuba is the best example of the failed American interventionist policy you strongly advocate.

Today Cuba is a crummy, crippled, corrupt communist country which can barely feed itself.  11-million Cubans would have virtually unlimited support if they tried to overthrow the dictatorship.  In addition to the world’s strongest superpower only 90-miles away, it has:

1. Hundreds, if not thousands, of rich Cubans living in Miami who would gladly give $-millions to free their homeland.

2. Crazy paramilitary extremists who would practically swim the 90-miles to fight Castro, Inc.

3. Pledges by at least 9 US Presidents to help free the island.

4. Guaranteed US military might with some baloney excuses we could make up as easily as we made them up about Iraq.

5. Guantanamo – a US military base INSIDE of this “enemy” country which could easily play an important role in a government overthrow.

6. Many people tuned in with cell phones and computers for a solid communications system.

Yet, there has been no revolution – no rebellion – nothing even close.  Why?

BECA– USE CUBANS DON’T WANT A US BRAND OF DEMOCRACY!

“Arch” conservatives just can’t seem to get that into their heads! EVERYONE IN THE WORLD DOES NOT WANT THE DEMOCRACY FOR WHICH YOU WOULD HAVE OUR TROOPS FIGHT AND DIE.

Whatsa matter wit your brains?!

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27 Responses to “Cuba? Not So Gooding.”

  1. Steve says:

    A friend of mine and I discuss Cuba often. Neithe rone of us gets it. Why was Saddam a threat on the other side of the planet, yet Castro was in power for decades? Why wa sit so important to “liberate the Iraqis” and not Cubans?
    Americans can’t go there, but Canadians can.
    I don’t know. I don’t get Cuba at all. All the other islands are fine…yet Cuba… I often think Castro is a US plant, a “devil we know” type thing so someone uncontrollable never got in. I don’t know. I do know I would have love to checked out Havanna in the 40’s or 50’s. Bet they had fun.
    And your last statement, I agree 100%.
    Democracy is a shirt, you wear. Now, if I come to school/work with a shirt that looks and feels really cool…if other people like/want that shirt bad enough…they’re gonna go out and get one. They’ll go without groceries to buy one (like with iPods, Cell phoens, etc.). Now, if the shirt is so great, I can go to school/work, the next day, expecting EVERYONE to have one…and yet, I don’t see that. So, maybe, not everyone likes the shirt. Maybe the shirt doesn’t fit everyone else like it fits me (“Oh, sure, it looks good on you, but it didn’t do a thing for me”). So, yes, some Americans just cannot accept that not everyone wants to be like us (Hey, along with Capitalism, we have teen suicide, depression, drugs, alcoholism, and people with NO values sytems, smog, traffic, homicide over sneakers, suicide over MySpace pages, who wouldn’t want that)…

    Personally, I think we ruin everything we touch. I’m glad I never had a kid, I would NEVER want to raise him in this country or school system…no way in hell.

  2. Joe belle-Isle says:

    Castro and Che Gueverra took a freinds of mines Father prisoner after the first International Hijacking and took him to castro’s strongold in the Sierra Maestro mountains. Castro has a 6th grade education. My freinds Father had been his 6th grade Teacher, then castro sent Che into south America to stir up 40 years of communisist guerillas, who joined with FARC and the Colombian Drug cartells, causing just in the last 2 years the murder of an entire colombian village of 5,000 people and at least 150 Colombian fedral judges prior to that and a lot of anti American sentiment- such as one woman looking for a child to adopt was stoned to death because the “RUmors” spread said rich Americans came to get poor children to harvest their body parts.. His reach is far. Canadians can go suck up to that murderring bastard, but that’s Canadians. Castro invented international terrorism and lots and lots of south American murders, drug cartells, you go kiss his ass. He’s a dictator pig. If it was as simple as you make it, the world would be as simple as you are.

  3. Joe belle-Isle says:

    Democracy is a shirt you put on- Jesus steve that’s STUPID.

  4. Joe belle-Isle says:

    In the 40’s and 50’s and 30’s Cuba was a dictatorship where nobody CUBAN was allowed on the street past 9pm unless they were entertaining Americans. The ugly American had a ball, screwing little boys and girls so long as batista got a cut. Lucky Lucianno ran the Mafia out of Havana and the first man I ever worked for in shipping sold used cars by the boatload to batista. Hows This for a Question, Instead of crushing all those cars that got turned in how come we couldn’t sell them to those 3rd world countries.? Rememeber the little boys Mother drowned trying to get out of there. They don’t love him- they fear him.

  5. Frank Paolo says:

    Joe B-I: now before we call anyone stupid, let’s check our facts.

    You “Castro has a 6th grade education.”

    Wikipedia:
    “Castro was born into a wealthy family and acquired a law degree. While studying at Havana University, he began his political career and became a recognized figure in Cuban politics.”

    Here’s the point: our opinions are based on knowledge. If the “knowledge” is flawed or subsists mainly on “So&so told So&so….” & colored by our fears and doubts, the “knowledge” is laughable.

    I think I presented a pretty good case for the conclusion: 11-million Cuban DON’T WANT America’s idea of democracy – they could have taken out Castro just about any day of the week for 50-years! And, in spite of my facts, your conclusion is “they fear him”?

    Are they any less brave than the Czechs and about 100 other revolutions in foreign countries? WITHOUT the support Cubans can have any time?

  6. Frank Paolo says:

    “Then Castro sent Che into South America to stir up 40 years of communist guerillas” Joe B-I

    In the beginning, that must have been quite difficult for a baby. Guevara died when he was 39.

    Wikipedia:

    “Guevara left Cuba in 1965 to incite revolutions first unsuccessfully in Congo-Kinshasa and later in Bolivia, where he was captured by CIA-assisted Bolivian forces and executed.”

  7. Joe belle-Isle says:

    The Cartells and FARC are still going strong- years after Che Gueverra was killed. The idea was to bring communism in to free the poor. He wasn’t there for 40 years Frank, his work and teachings were, and became corrupted by drug money, Just like a bunch of other governments- say even Ollie and Ronnie. Some countries, Like Vietnam, are doing better by their people than they did under their fraudulent democratic leaders. While Pol Plot’s Communism decided they had to kill everyone that could read to re-educate the people. Our freaking enemies- the people we fought for over 10 years, freed the cambodians from Pol Plot, and the Vietnamese, who we thought would take over country after country, actually hate the cambodians and don’t want anything to do with them, or didn’t. And there still is a free market in our past enemies country, makes some of us feel like we were part of something done stupid, but you don’t throw the whole thing out because we had some stupid leaders. Have some stupid GREEDY leaders.

  8. Frank Paolo says:

    A personal story here. In 1995, Kodak sent me through five countries of Asia to teach their executives how to make presentations. Thailand was the midway point so people from Asian countries which did not sponsor seminars could attend.

    Right in front of me were two managers from Vietnam. They turned out to be the best students I had on the whole trip. They took extensive notes, asked intelligent questions, and hung on to every word I said.

    At the end of the seminar, they rushed up to see if I would sign their books. While signing the first book, 25 years of everything from “America/Vietnam War” came rushing to the surface.

    I was a bit overcome and managed to croak out, “Do you hate all Americans?” Of course they were shocked! They saw the “teacher” quickly losing face and all dignity and said with vigorous head shakes
    “No! No!”

    The older one said, “Mr. Paolo, do you hate the Japanese?” I quickly said “No – of course not! Why?” (Duhhh) He smiled and said, “Mr. Paolo, half the people in Vietnam today were born AFTER the war. We don’t hate Americans – we’re trying to learn how you guys make so much money.”

    Chuckles and smiles all around. Later, in my suite, I thought of how sensitive and innocent they were – and how quick and smart. And had they been born 40-years earlier, how quickly they would have been used as fodder by their ruthless generals. And I remember how our “leaders” did the same thing with 57,000 young Americans. FOR WHAT FUCKING THING?!

    My favorite poster on my dorm room door showed a young infant horribly burned by napalm. The caption? FUCK WAR… After napalming children, NOTHING is obscene.

  9. Frank Paolo says:

    BTW, Joe, I believe Steve did a stint in the Air Force. And I have NO DOUBT if any country attacked America, he’d be right ahead of me in the volunteer line. And that would be after I butted ahead of you. Then all three of us could suffer together as the kids laughed at the old guys.

  10. Joe belle-Isle says:

    Castro also was a champion of the poorest of the poor. We lost at the bay of pigs because the lowest on the Cuban social structure- the carboneros(Woods living makers of charcoal-Cubas source of fuel) lived in that area. Our intelligence thought they would be the first to back us up. But they were the first to have their lives improved by Fidel. They didn’t jump up and come to our aid. They were still making charcoal the ancient way as it was made in the Bronze age. A guy digs about an 18′ circle out with his foot and they stack wood up high in that circle, then they pack mud and dirt around the pile of wood with a few vent holes to be opened or closes as the color of the smoke coming out of the top changes. after about three days of constant tending and watching the fire the smoke turns to the color of a charcoal fire and the air holes are all plugged, letting the trapped heat and coals turn the remaining wood into charcoal. Carboneros. The poorest of the poor, and the very first to be helped by castro. He had no law degree or was a politician in Batistas Cuba- Nobody was a politician around batista. He was a pig. My parents went there on their honeymoon because it was a famous place for a cheap party for Americans. When my father and Mother saw that the Police ran Cubans off their own streets after dark they were disgusted and left. Castro went to visit kennedy and he treated him like shit. Batitsta was enslaving his own people, and castro improved their lives and came to us in the U.S. and when we ignored him, He went to Russia. We do screw up a lot of things but other countries have screwed up so much more that they love us for TRYING. There is no-one else who is the hope of the world. with fanatics teaching children to be suicide bombers so close to viable nuclear weapons.

  11. Bill says:

    Yes, U.S. policy toward Cuba is irrational. True, we have no business trying to force democracy down the throats of Cubans or any other people in the world. Yes, we should normalize relations with them.

    However, the notion that Castro is a benevolent leader who is loved by his people is ridiculous. The man is a torturing, murderous bastard. Yes, Batista was too. So what?

    This is a problem the Cuban people need to sort out for themselves, but let us not romanticize the stinking creep who crushes them under his thumb.

  12. Steve says:

    I’ll just ignore your comment Joe, I don’t have the energy to argue with people like you anymore. FP, sorry, I was never in any branch of the military, although I wish I had joined, looking back, for the experience.
    BUt yes, if someone attacked us, I’d be out there with my 9mm taking out as many as I could before they got me.: – )
    Anyway, I agree with Bill, our Cuba policy is irrational, and I don’t think anyone is more ignorant of Cuba and it’s people than America.
    BTW, Doctors volunteered from Cuba during Hurricane Katrina, in fact, Chavez even offered help, but was refused, I believe.

  13. sp says:

    um,where can I get a good cigar…

  14. Steve says:

    And yes, Joe, I am stupid.

  15. Joe Belle-Isle says:

    Bill do you remember The notion that a pure communism was a pure democracy? Nobody ever made it to the point of a true communism but with purges in Russia and China and mao at the wheel they killed a lot of their own people developing Socialism.
    I think our undereducated teachers (Some, not all) can’t tell the difference between capitalism and Democracy. Everything fails without a solid economy. When we say we are trying to spread democracy we are actually trying to spread capitalism maybe. A country that’s had a king or a Dictator seems to me to succeed or fail on the leaders ability to let capitalism work where it will. People with no experience in Capitalism are going to fail when suddenly free’d to use it. Red China’s great rise in the economic world is from their studying what makes capitalism tick. In National Geographic they showed how a guy that was real good at making machines had made the machine that made the plastic loop on Bra-straps and that company cornerred the market. Then guys like that who had the drawings in their head might change their names and move to a differrent province- reproduce the machine, and compete. While it’s great for capitalism it can get the travelling guy killed if he doesn’t make a big enough killing fast enough to get out of Dodge before he gets busted for it. But the Government isn’t telling them how to make the machines better and resort areas are popping up for the new generation to party hardy.
    I worked with a Russian Jew. He said Communist Russia almost worked with one area producing meat and dairy, another bread, another industry, but each area wanted more pay and less trips to a rationed grocery store where shelves of staples were empty. I think they felt maybe money would cure that. A little more capitalism. But they didn’t know how- it took us over 200 years and we’re giving our businesses away.
    Then Castro goe’s to Russia for backing to make his country flourish. It could of been American Investor maybe and South America would still just have banditos in the mountains. But it was Russia, they go broke and so does Cuba. They are thinking the same thing Frank pointed out- You’ve had years to make your country work but you want us to do it for you, maybe. What my freinds wife said last night about the people getting the backing from the rich folks in America and getting rid of Castro and his government makes more sense than anything else I ever hear. The Ones in America are the rich ones Fidel threw out. Point in case. If they were to go back, they would want the land and homes they had stolen from them, they aren’t going back to let someone else keep their belongings and family estates and help Fidels revolution. They knew how to make capitalism work and haven’t survived on government jobs and the dole.

  16. Frank Paolo says:

    Bill: I hope you don’t think I believe “Castro is a benevolent leader”. If you can find one word in my post that supports that repulsive idea, please point it out to us.

    Also, as scummy as Castro is, he didn’t even come up on the “Worst Dictators” list I googled. He didn’t even make the top 10! On one list, he didn’t even make the top 20!

    Check out the lists. Beating Castro by far is one of our own “allies” King Faud of Saudi Arabia. Hmmm, Saudi Arabia. Don’t they have some oil there (and was home to some of the 911 terrorists)? Oh, never mind.

  17. Steve says:

    I never saw Bush holding hands with Castro, but I saw him holding hands and kissing the Sauds.
    And I believe Rummy and Saddam were pretty chummy in the 90’s.
    BUt, like you said FP, “oh, nevermind”.

  18. Joe Belle-Isle says:

    I don’t think your stupid, not by a long shot. differences of opinions now are about the only real education we can get anymore. I was waiting for your reply to appologise. I didn’t say you were stupid i said saying democracy is a shirt we put on is stupid. We aren’t even a democracy. We seem to be becoming a very corrupt republic. Our media wouldn’t even cover a demonstration by 2,000,000 people. 2nd ammendment? we’re losing freedom of the press. we’re in trouble and your assessment of our schools is right on. Our little town has opened a state paid school for kids who want to or have dropped out because they can’t stand it anymore. But want an education without getting beat up or robbed or picked on or maybe can’t even go everyday all day long. I don’t know how it works, It’s a public private school for kids who seem to want to womp dumbass teachers. or avoid those that want to womp them.

  19. Warrior says:

    FP,
    Looks like the D&C has a thing for you. You’ve been censored again.

  20. Steve says:

    No worries, Joe : – )

  21. Woodie says:

    I know a bunch of Cubans who would beg to differ. They came here for the type of democratic Constitutional Republican values we have here in the states. The left because they had the courage to do so, and at least one because he was told if he didn’t leave that night the rest of his days would be spent in a Cuban prison, or worse, he may end up dead.

  22. Frank Paolo says:

    Hello Woodie,

    You know “a bunch” of Cubans? How many? Six, 20, 100? There are 11-million Cubans who don’t know you.

    D’ya know what kills me? You are willing to send our troops to fight and die in Cuba. So how come 11-million people can’t do it – in 50-years!?!

  23. Steve says:

    I would bet that Woodie knows no Cubans.

  24. Joe Belle-Isle says:

    I can’t believe the D&C would ban a conversation that gets over 20 responses- BUT Obama wants to give money to papers in Trouble (D&C?) THEN we have gov’t with financial interest in what the press says. Folks we ARE being taken over the way Ayers (The admitted communist advisor and writer said) So fast we won’t know what hit us. Argue, fight, agree- It’s ALL GOOD. That’s Freedom working and now the president also want the ability to shut down the internet- for our own good, after he disarms our anti-missile system. The democrats want the health bill published where they can read it for 72 hours before the vote and have been DENIED. Millions will come from medicare. You think your getting helth care- your being taken over from inside the way Nikita Kruschev said we would be.

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